For their fourth studio album, Pale Waves is both returning to their roots and exploring uncharted territory. The four-piece band, consisting of Heather Baron-Gracie (frontwoman), Ciara Doran (drums), Hugo Silvani (guitar) and Charlie Wood (bass), have been on a journey of self-discovery, both as musicians and as individuals. Their last record Unwanted (2022) explored a heavier, pop-punk sound, a contrast to their previous projects that leaned more into the indie & alternative genres. Though Unwanted was a shift from Pale Waves’ usual sonic space, it was a strong, energetic album that translated well to a live performance environment. Their upcoming fourth album Smitten is a return to the warm, full production that is more similar to the band’s earlier projects.
However, there’s a freshness to their new music, and a groundedness that can only be found through growing up and discovering yourself. Smitten explores themes of vulnerability, queerness, love, finding yourself, and growing up. It’s authentic and modern, yet also a callback to the sound that fans know and love. Two singles have been released from the project, including sapphic 80’s inspired “Perfume” and reflective breakup anthem “Glasgow.” The nostalgic alt-pop sound is present in both tracks and gives insight into what fans can expect from the rest of Smitten.
Following the release of the single “Glasgow” and ahead of the release of Smitten, 1883 was able to sit down with Heather Baron-Gracie of Pale Waves to chat about the album and this era of the band.
Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today! I have to congratulate you on the release of your latest single, “Glasgow,” how are you feeling about the response and the reception to the track so far?
It’s been great, I love “Glasgow.” It’s my favorite off the record, so I was very happy when it got released and everyone could hear it for the first time. I had a lot of fun shooting the music video for “Glasgow” too. I was really happy when the world got to see that. But the reception’s been great, people have been loving this kind of era we’ve created so far. I feel like it’s only going to get better and stronger.
Absolutely! I want to ask about that accompanying music video, such a range of emotions captured between the close-up shots of you in the car & those scenic side shots. Can you tell me a bit about that filming process, and about the vision for that video?
That music video was never planned to happen, really. Our record label said, ‘Okay, we’ll do two music videos. We’re going to do one for “Perfume,” and one for the third single.’ I obviously was annoyed, because I wanted to do a music video for all of the singles, if possible. Then they were nice enough to be like, ‘We want to do that too, we’ll give you X amount of money and you have to make it happen yourself.’ I kind of acquired a team. The team was four other people. My best friend Niall [Lea], my girlfriend Kelsi [Luck], and someone from the label called Rae [Lemeshow-Barooshian], who’s amazing. Then a guy we know called Joe [Stonell], shoots everything on the camera. We basically found a car, and we were up north, in northern England. It was 20 minutes away from my parents’ house. We did it over a weekend, we shot two music videos. It was really fun because it wasn’t like a big production team, where sometimes they kill the fun, you have to run by their rules. You can’t do this, you can’t do that. When there are a lot of people involved too, your idea gets diluted, and that annoys me. I feel like we had a lot of freedom with this music video, and a lot of fun with it as well. I want to do it with a small team every single time, from now on!
I was actually going to ask about your girlfriend Kelsi’s involvement, she’s been involved with some of the other visuals for this era as well, and you two have worked together a lot in the past! Can you tell me a bit about that dynamic, what is it like creatively collaborating with your partner?
It’s so fun! I feel like she brings so much to the table. Her ideas are always so much better than mine! It’s great for me, and great for Pale Waves. Honestly, she’s like the fifth member of Pale Waves now. Everyone in Pale Waves loves her as well. She’s kind of like… she’s a bit older than everyone too, everyone goes to her for comfort. She’s kind of like everyone’s therapist. But then also creates the world for us, as well. It’s so fun. I feel like it’s a big part of our relationship, as well. We’re both creative people. I respect her, and she respects me, and we get to do this fun thing together. It’s so much better than doing it with someone you hardly know. She gets my vision, and she brings out the best in Pale Waves I feel like.
It’s so cool to be able to create art with someone you care about.
Yeah, definitely. I feel like when I find my people for those roles, even in terms of writing music, I’ll just stick with those people as well. Like, okay, well that’s your role now and I’m not going to go elsewhere. We’re going to do this together now.
Once it clicks, it clicks.
Yeah, exactly. And it’s fun.
Absolutely. “Perfume” is the lead single from this record, how did you decide on this sapphic, 80’s vibe track being the introduction to Smitten?
It just was the star of the show from the get-go. Everyone kind of thought the same. Everyone responded so well to “Perfume,” even though “Glasgow” is my favorite on the record. I like them all, I like all the tracks, obviously. But “Perfume” just felt right. Just that feeling that you get. I’m really big on gut instincts, for me “Perfume” always had to start the show. I feel like everyone that kind of listened to the record felt the same way. It just gives main character energy. There’s nothing else that would start the campaign.
These two tracks from Smitten have a more dreamy, alt-pop sound which is a shift from the pop-punk themes on your last record, Unwanted. How did you guys land in this sonic space as a band, and what did that journey look like in terms of transitioning into this sound?
For me, I feel like our first, our second, and Smitten all exist well together in a world. They all have very similar influences. You can hear them all going together. For me, Unwanted is kind of the odd one out. Unwanted was very different. During that time when we were writing that record, it was COVID, we wanted to play live, and we were sick of not being on tour. I feel like when the process of writing that record began, we wanted big songs. We wanted loads of energy, we wanted to cause a scene with it. Just have fun with it musically. I don’t feel like, as artists and such… it wasn’t our most creative album. It was more of a record that was for fun, rather than anything else. Once we got that out of our system… Smitten to me feels very organic and real, [there] wasn’t a lot of influence with that record, it was from us and what we wanted to do rather than hopping on a scene that was happening at the time. You can become obsessed with a certain thing and try to replicate it, but I wasn’t obsessed with anything at the time I was writing Smitten. It’s just kind of like going back to the roots. That’s the music that I love. The Cocteau Twins, The Cranberries, that 80’s/90’s thing.
With the songs from Unwanted, do you feel those songs translate well to your live show? Do you enjoy playing them live?
100%. I love playing those songs live more than a lot of our songs in our set. Would I put Unwanted on in my headphones and listen to it over Smitten? Absolutely not. No way. I would listen to Smitten way more than any of the tracks on Unwanted, but in a live environment, I would want to hear both of them, but I have [a lot more] fun playing “Jealousy” than “Television Romance.” Or “There’s A Honey.” Just because it’s so fun and energetic, and I feel like the crowd feels the same way too. I feel like the album was for the purpose of having fun live.
When it came to writing for Smitten, did you feel the writing process was similar to the writing process of your first two albums? Did you feel yourself returning to those roots in that way, how did it look different from the Unwanted writing process?
Yeah, 100%. Unwanted just felt different to all of the other records. It was very relaxed and very fun to write, we wanted these fun songs. With Smitten, yeah, I did feel myself going back to how I originally wrote a lot of songs. A lot of them started from just me on an acoustic guitar, and what naturally came out melodically. And then we would break down a concept, and figure out why I wanted to write about this thing, etc. Whereas Unwanted was just fun.
It’s good to have balance, I think. You were able to explore something different, and then return to your roots when it felt right. Different projects for different purposes.
Yeah, exactly. Putting a different paint on the palette, almost.
When you were writing for Smitten, what did you find yourself inspired by?
I feel like when I wrote the other records, I was writing very much from the present tense. Whereas when I was writing Smitten, it was kind of broad. I was writing about experiences that happened to me when I was eighteen, and I was able to go back in time. It was over the huge course of my life. It wasn’t just about right now. It’s a very queer album, it’s all about my experiences with different women, and my relationships with them. I dived into a lot about my sexuality, my stories, and my journey. I feel like it’s just because I got older, really, that I’m able to do that. I’m a lot more comfortable in my own skin, whereas when I was younger I was definitely not comfortable.
When it comes to your relationship with your fans, how do you feel it has evolved? Especially as you and the other band members have gone on journeys of self-discovery and have grown over the years, how has that impacted your relationship with your fanbase?
When we released “She’s My Religion,” something shifted in our fanbase. Whether that was more queer people opening up to us because they realized that I’m queer, and Ciara’s trans, and I was finally starting to speak about my sexuality, that brought more queer fans into the fanbase. I just feel like when I’m at a Pale Waves show and I look out, it’s like gay pride. There’s so many queer people, and that’s exactly what we want. It’s amazing. I see that they love that about us.
I was at one of your shows in 2018, and even back then I felt like the majority of the audience was queer, we were all in it together. It’s cool that it’s only grown from there. So, this is your fourth album as a band, do you feel your creative process as a group has evolved, or do you feel it’s ultimately remained the same?
I think it’s remained the same, with some slight changes and slight adjustments. For example, Hugo really controls a lot of the live aspects, so does a lot of the tech stuff and he’ll write transitions. Ciara is helping out with that now. But I would say the core of the music, I’ve done a lot of, and they help me. They help facilitate where I want to go with it if that makes sense. It feels like our roles have stayed very similar to where they began.
Right after this album comes out, you are heading out on a UK tour. What are you most looking forward to about that experience?
I’m looking forward to just playing live shows, but our own shows again. Especially in the UK, because that’s obviously where we’re the biggest. I love UK crowds, they’re so fun and so rowdy. There’s nothing quite like playing your own shows. A support set can be fun and quite relaxed, but you always want to be playing your own shows because they’re just the best. It’s been a minute since we’ve played a headline tour. I’m excited to get back at it.
To wrap up, your upcoming single “Gravity” will be released on August 15th, alongside an accompanying music video. What can you share about that track?
This track was a nightmare to write, there are so many versions of it. There’s got to be, like, 20 versions of this song. We kept going back and forth, changing so many parts of it. We finally landed on the finished product when we were recording down in Eastbourne. It took a year to a year and a half. I’m glad that it’s finally finished! The concept is about a brief thing that I had with a woman, she was deeply devoted to religion. She was torn between being queer and being religious. The struggle that I had with that. In the end, she chose Jesus over me, which is fine. I thought, you know, I’ve got to write about this. I kind of forced Kelsi to be in the music video, she didn’t want to be. She prefers being behind the camera, but I somehow convinced her to partly be in this video. Shooting the video was fun, but writing the track was quite difficult. The music is quite uplifting, but the lyrics are quite intense.
Smitten is out September 20th.
Interview Brigid Young
