Love doesn’t always make us behave in our own best interests. Sometimes, knowing better and wanting better are two different things. But what if losing at love doesn’t have to be embarrassing? For Thai singer-songwriter Pami, that contradiction is at the heart of her latest single, ‘Loser’, a playful yet emotionally vulnerable exploration of situationships and the strange comfort of wanting someone who doesn’t necessarily give you what you want in return. Rather than viewing this as something to be embarrassed or ashamed of, Pami finds the feeling fascinating, meeting its complexities with an unconventional curiosity. “I like how I’m such a loser in love,” she admits, embracing the messy facets of desire and lust without feeling the need to follow stereotypical rules about how love should look.

That honesty extends into the song’s accompanying music video, where surreal imagery gives shape to the emotional chaos behind the lyrics. Transitioning from white to red, the visuals explore both sexual desire around menstruation and the vulnerability of being overwhelmed by conflicting emotions. Meanwhile, a pair of twins represent the competing thoughts that can occupy the same mind when navigating toxic relationships and conflicting desires. The result is a striking visual counterpart to a song that balances a catchy, playful sound with the uncomfortable reality of wanting someone even when you know better.

Having spent years navigating different corners of the entertainment industry, from acting and group projects to finding her footing as a solo artist, Pami is now carving out a space for her own English-language music. With more than 12 million global streams and growing recognition for earlier releases ‘cry jar’ and ‘all in’, she has recently completed her headline East Asian tour. Speaking with 1883, Pami reflects on the contradictions of love, the creative thinking behind ‘Loser’, her journey as an artist and the simple pleasures that bring her joy.

Hi, nice to meet you.

Hi, thanks for having me.

How are you? How are you doing?

Doing great. It’s 9 pm in Thailand right now. It’s a pretty chill night for me. I just played games and stuff.

Nice. What did you get up to today?

Do you know Red Dead Redemption on PS5?

No.

I play on PS5, and I have my holiday time today.

That sounds nice. Well, congratulations on your single, ‘Loser’.

Thank you.

You’re welcome. I know that you’re doing some shows right now, right?

Yes, actually, I just finished my Asia tour. I went to Korea, Japan and China, and it was great. It was last month.

‘Loser’ captures that uncomfortable space of knowing someone isn’t good for you while still wanting them. What was happening in your life when you first started writing the song, and what made you want to put that experience into music?

Usually, when I write songs, they’re based on my own experiences and things that have actually happened to me. But this time, I worked with my co-writer, Jet Brighton, and we started talking about situationships, something a lot of teenagers experience nowadays. Although I wasn’t going through one at the time, I could relate because I’d experienced something similar before, even though I didn’t like it at all.

When you’re in a situationship, you’re doing everything you would in a relationship, almost like a boyfriend and girlfriend, but without the official status. And because you’re not technically together, the other person might not treat you with the same consideration. You don’t even feel like you have the right to be jealous or express how you feel because, technically, they’re not your partner.

I’ve been in that situation before, and somehow, I realised that I still wanted to be with him regardless. That’s where the idea of being a ‘loser’ came from. If I were a winner, I would walk away and choose something better for myself, right? But instead, I’d rather stay with this guy, let him make a fool out of me, and accept that I’m the loser in that situation.

There seem to be a lot of contradictions in ‘Loser’: wanting to leave, making excuses for someone, craving their attention, and still knowing better. Did you find it difficult to be honest with yourself whilst writing the song?

Actually, I like being myself because I like that part of me. I like how I’m such a loser in love, if that makes sense. In a relationship, I don’t feel like I have to win or anything. I just do what I feel like I want to do.

I might want to be with a guy even though all my friends hate him. They’ll tell me to walk away, but I might still find it difficult to do that. Obviously, if he’s abusive, that’s different, and I need to get away from that because that’s scary. But if he’s just cold and nonchalant, or he doesn’t want to give me a relationship status, I’m okay with that.

We might be casual sometimes, and then there are moments when we’re in love, and I like that feeling. I know that in a lot of Asian cultures, people talk about what makes a good relationship, like the guy needing to respect you, and that’s true. But I don’t know, I find this feeling fascinating sometimes: wanting somebody so badly that you accept you’re probably not going to win their love. You’re willing to take whatever little bits of affection they give you, almost like you’re living off crumbs. It’s sad, but it’s the truth, and I think so many women around the world have experienced that. That’s why I wrote the song.

A lot of women go through being in situationships and being in a casual relationship without getting the relationship status. In the aftermath of that, some women would be quite devastated. However, you seem quite relaxed…

Actually, it worked out in the end. I experienced that situation, and somehow, that guy and I fell in love, which is really nice. (laughs) In the end, we managed to make things clearer between us, and we became boyfriend and girlfriend.

It’s funny because I was just like, ‘Okay, I’m going to go with the flow and see what happens.’ I accepted that I was the loser and decided not to push him for answers or make a big deal out of things. And then, eventually, it worked out for me. That’s why I seem so relaxed about it, but honestly, I don’t know what would have happened if things hadn’t turned out that way. It might have broken me. (laughs)

I think it’s a bit like the five stages of grief. You’re at the acceptance stage, where you’ve accepted the situation for what it is. That’s kind of how it felt for me. I think love is different for everyone. For me, it’s not necessarily about expecting something in return. I just like this guy. I like the way he does things, and I like him for who he is. I don’t need that much in return, although sometimes I still wonder, ‘Do I look like a fool? Am I an idiot? Am I different from everyone else?’ But in the end, I still want to be with him, so I don’t really care. That’s what love means to me: loving someone even if I look like a fool, because I don’t care.

The music video takes that emotional confusion into some very surreal territory, from milk bottles being used as bowling pins, to the shift from white to red, and the blood appearing towards the end. What did you want those images to communicate about the story behind ‘Loser’?

The music video is one of the few I’ve done where I didn’t direct it myself with my team. We hired a professional director and worked together to discuss the story we wanted to tell. The original idea came from a conversation with my team about what we could do visually, because this song is quite different from my previous releases. It sounds more like pop, and it’s about situationships and those complicated feelings. There’s a lyric where I sing, ‘I’m coming up to that time of the month now, I want it so bad.’ You know, it’s red, right? (laughs) So I thought it would be interesting to start with every colour except red, then gradually introduce more and more red.

I wanted to portray how women can feel particularly vulnerable and sensitive around that time of the month. That also connects to the emotions behind the song. When you’re emotionally unstable, you can have all these thoughts running through your head: ‘I’m a loser. Am I a fool? I want you. I miss you. I really want you.’ It’s that feeling of being overwhelmed by your own emotions.

That’s why the music video transitions from white into red. We also have twins in the video. Originally, we were supposed to have actual twins, but one of them became ill on set, so we had to bring in another actress. It worked out, though, because they still look like twins. They’re both representing my thoughts – the idea that you can have good and bad thoughts, but they’re still coming from the same person.

They’re like your thoughts running around, constantly reminding you that you’re missing this guy and that you’re not okay. We wanted the whole video to feel whimsical, airy and a little strange. Some of the actions don’t necessarily make sense, which is quite fitting because that’s how emotions can feel sometimes. You find yourself thinking, ‘Why am I feeling like this? This makes no sense.’ I think the video captures that feeling really well. By the end, I’m wearing an entirely red outfit, which represents being completely drenched in those emotions – and in love, too.

And what about the blood on the wall? I thought it might have been like – ooh – there’s a guy mopping the floor. It might sound extreme, but given the chaos that comes with emotional feelings, you might be like, “Oh my God, I want to kill this person.” Was that it, or am I just making that up? (laughs)

That’s actually a really interesting interpretation. I hadn’t thought about it that way, but you can definitely see it like that too. (laughs)

Because after the blood spatters, he disappears.

The funny thing is, our director initially wanted to take the video in a much more horror-inspired direction. My team and I didn’t want it to be too scary, though. One of my team members wasn’t sure about the idea of blood splattering everywhere, but I actually thought we should do it. The director wanted me to end up completely covered in red, so the idea was to make it look as though the red was coming from somewhere and then pouring out. But I didn’t want to kill the guy that badly. (laughs) Personally, I’d rather let him live. That’s more in line with my personality.

I also thought it was funny when I saw some of the comments saying, ‘Oh, she’s completely drenched in love.’ I was like, ‘I’m sorry, I think I’m actually drenched in my period.’ (laughs) I love that people interpreted it so romantically, though. Thank you for making it sound so beautiful! Honestly, that wasn’t my first thought at all.

And I guess with such an interesting music video, it creates that kind of ooh-hoo. What’s going on here?

I really love it because it’s so different from my other music videos. With the previous ones, we would shoot everything ourselves using a small digital camera. The process was really quick, and the videos had more of a DIY feel. But this time, we had a proper camera, a much bigger crew and so many people working on set. I remember thinking, ‘Wow, I haven’t done something like this in such a long time.’

You’ve had quite a big year, from ‘cry jar’ and ‘all in’ to your first solo shows, and now you’ve just finished your East Asian tour. When you look at everything that has happened this year, is there a moment where you thought, ‘Wow, this is actually happening’?

I think about that quite often. When we were on tour, I actually asked my band, “Do you guys ever stop and think, ‘What are we doing right now? Is this actually happening?’” Because I feel that way a lot. Sometimes I’m on stage, singing and hyping up the crowd, and suddenly it hits me that this is actually happening to me. It feels unreal, and I’m just so grateful because I never imagined I’d be here.

I get that feeling in other moments, too. When I’m shooting a music video or sitting in a room listening to my mixing engineer work on a song, I’ll suddenly think, “Is this my life now?” It’s crazy because my life looks so different from how it used to. I’m so happy that songs I’ve written myself are now being released and even getting physical album releases. Sometimes, I still can’t believe it.

But when I’m in my room playing games, I’m like, “Okay, this is who I am, too.” (laughs) I’m just chilling, spending time with my dog and doing my own thing. Then I go outside, and suddenly I’m thinking, “Wait, is this really happening?”

Is singing something you’ve always wanted to do?

Yes, I’ve been in the entertainment industry for about ten years. I started out more as an actress, then became part of a duo before going solo as a singer in Thailand. After that, I moved to China and joined a girl group, but then I kind of disappeared. It was during COVID, and things were pretty difficult in China. I eventually came back to Thailand and disappeared from the scene again. For a while, I was selling handmade jewellery online and doing my own thing.

Then I reached a point where I thought, ‘Okay, I want to do this again.’ So, I went to London and spent four or five months learning music production, songwriting and singing. I absolutely fell in love with London. When I returned to Thailand, I continued working on my music, and that’s when I started writing songs in English.

Wow, it’s quite an interesting journey. But I’m guessing being in London inspired you to write in English?

Actually, I had written songs in English before, too. I grew up in Phuket, an island in Thailand where there are lots of foreigners. My dad had many foreign friends, and most of my friends spoke English with me, so I was exposed to the language from a young age. But when you’re working in the Thai music industry, naturally, you have to sing in Thai. And when I was in China, I had to work in Chinese. So even though I’d written songs in English before, I never really had the opportunity to release my own English music.

After I returned from London, I noticed that English-language music was starting to gain more recognition within certain communities in Thailand, particularly in the indie scene, although it was still quite a small movement. There was also HYBS, a duo that was signed to the same company I’m with now. Their music was amazing, and they became really popular before eventually disbanding. Seeing what they achieved made me think, ‘I want to be part of that company, too.’ It gave me more confidence to release my own music in English.

Writing songs in Thai is also really difficult, which is funny when you think about it. The way Thai words are pronounced has to fit the melody, and there’s a particular resonance to the language. You have to be very careful with how you pronounce each word because even changing the note can affect how the word sounds and potentially change its meaning.

Damn, that’s hard.

It’s really hard. (laughs) I mean, I can write in Thai, but the lyrics end up sounding quite childish or simple. I can recognise a really good Thai song when I hear it or read the lyrics, so I know what good songwriting in Thai looks like. That’s why I know how difficult it would be for me to reach that level myself. It’s really hard.

Wow, that’s very interesting. I also wanted to ask, do you still make jewellery?

No, not anymore. I wish I could, but I’m the only person running the business, and I don’t have any employees. It takes up so much time, and I also have back problems, which makes it difficult to keep doing it.

Really, from all the jewellery you made?

Yeah, because I’m sitting in a crouched position all the time, and it really hurts my back. I did it for so long that it started affecting my health, so I had to stop. I also need a lot of space to store all the materials and jewellery. When I was making and selling jewellery, I was living in my hometown, Hat Yai, in southern Thailand. But now I’m in Bangkok, living in a small apartment. (laughs) So I just don’t have the space for it anymore.

Your dog seems to make quite a few appearances in your world. What does having a dog around bring to your everyday life, especially when you’re working on music or travelling?

I love this question so much. No one’s ever asked me that before, and I’d love to answer it. She’s like family to me now. I spend time with her every day, pretty much all the time. When I’m sleeping, she’s on my bed, and we wake up together. Sometimes, even when I’m taking a shower, she’ll come into the bathroom and sit there watching me. (laughs) It’s so sweet because she’s always with me. She’s even sitting on my lap right now while we’re talking.

What’s her name?

Her name is actually Japanese. She’s called Sora (空), which means ‘sky’. I feel like she’s an angel who came down from the sky, so that’s why I gave her that name. She’s such a sweet dog, and she’s been with me for almost six years now. Whenever I’m working, writing songs or making music, she’s always with me. Even right now, while I’m talking to you, I’m holding her because I know she’ll start barking otherwise. When I’m writing songs or playing the piano, it’s fine if she barks, but when I need to record, she usually has to sit on my lap. (laughs)

Thankfully, I live in a dog-friendly apartment building, so there are lots of other dogs around. She gets to talk to her neighbours and bark along with them. (laughs) Travelling is a little more complicated because I have to book a dog hotel for her whenever I go away, and that costs me so much money. But it’s fine because she’s my responsibility. Sometimes I feel like I’m just making money to give it all to my dog. (laughs) She recently had surgery because of some dental problems, and that was expensive, too.

But she’s also a symbol of love for me. She’s one of the reasons I believe so much in unconditional love. She means a lot to me, and I honestly can’t even think about why dogs have shorter lifespans than humans without getting angry. It’s so unfair.

If we temporarily take music out of the equation, what is something you’re currently obsessed with? A film, game, place, food, animal, hobby – anything you’d happily talk about for hours?

I’m really into gaming right now. I told you, I’m quite simple. (laughs) I love playing games. It’s almost like an escape from reality. You get to spend time somewhere else, in another world, and just keep going. You don’t have to be yourself for hours, and that feels so nice. I’m especially into open-world games where you can create your own character and just explore…

Is ‘open world’ the name of the game?

No, it’s a genre of game. Open-world games let you travel freely around a huge map and explore different places. The developers create an entire world that you can interact with and experience almost as if it were real. There’s so much to discover, which is what makes it so fun. I just finished playing Ghost of Yōtei, which has a Japanese setting, and now I’m playing Red Dead Redemption, which is set in the Wild West. I love that I can explore these completely different worlds that don’t exist in my everyday life. It’s so much fun, and it’s also something I enjoy talking about with my friends. I also love crocheting.

Aww, do you? That’s so nice.

I’ll show you, because I make jewellery, right? So, I love DIY projects, and I actually do a lot of crocheting, too.

Omg, that’s so cute!

Thank you so much. I crochet so many things.

What… is that a tissue box? (gasps)

Yeah, it’s a tissue box cover. Right now, I’m sitting at a table, and I actually crocheted the whole thing myself.

(gasps) Wait, wait, wait. The table cover! That’s incredible, Pami!

Thank you, thank you. I love crocheting so much. I do it all the time, especially when I don’t want to look at a screen. It’s just so relaxing because you’re repeating the same movements over and over again, and you can simply enjoy the process. I find it really calming.

I can imagine you do it really quickly as well.

I mean, not that quickly, but at a pretty good pace, I think. (laughs)

I know you do it quickly. Listen, you don’t have to downplay it. I know you do it quickly.

I think that’s a girly side of me, being like, ‘I can crochet, yay!’ (laughs)

Oh my gosh, that’s so nice! (laughs)

Thank you.

But that’s actually the end of our interview.

Really?

I know, I’m so upset.

Wait, let me show you something quickly.

Okay, sure.

I’ve crocheted so many hats. I made about 20 of them, and at one point I thought, ‘Should I sell these?’ (laughs)

This is nuts! Wait, that’s cute! I like that! It’s a vibe, you know.

I love crocheting so much.

Wow, so how long does it take you to make one hat?

Probably an hour or two.

So, if you wanted to, you could make up to five hats in a day.

Yes, if I want to.

Well, it looks like you have been. That’s insane.

Sometimes I look at all the hats I’ve made and think, ‘What’s wrong with me?’ (laughs) But it’s such a good activity to do in your free time. You end up with more hats, but you also develop more patience and mindfulness. It’s really nice.

I might need to pick it up and do it as well. It seems so fun.

Actually, crocheting isn’t that hard. At first, I thought it would be really difficult, but you just have to follow the instructions and keep practising. The more you do it, the more familiar it becomes, and eventually it feels so easy. One of my best friends crochets, too, but she’s much better than me. She can even crochet dresses!

But I could definitely see a fashion brand in the making – for hats and accessories – wink, wink.

I hope so! I would like to release crocheted stuff and jewellery too!

Minus the back pain there, of course.

And maybe turn myself into a businesswoman.

Well, yeah, why not? Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

That would be so nice too. But right now, I’m going to chase my dreams.

One dream at a time.

Thank you so much, Nancy. It was a really fun interview.

No, thank you. I’m so glad; it’s been great. It was so nice speaking with you, and we’ll keep in touch. Congrats again on finishing your tour and your music. I wish you all the very best.

Thank you so much, Nancy. Great talk, great times. Have a good day. Right now, what’s the time there?

3:40 pm right now.

Have a great dinner today. Thank you so much.

Thanks, that’s so nice. Have a great night. I can imagine you’ll go back to the video games, but don’t stay up too late now. (laughs)

I will take care. Bye!

Bye!

‘Loser’ it out now, follow via @pamigax

Interview Nancy Anekwe